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Summary: Regarding why there are two different worlds (Deaf & Hearing)?
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Alex @ Life of the Hard of Hearing: Click here
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May 16th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I’m so glad you brought up this topic. I’ve been asking myself the same question. Why say deaf world, hearing world? I think Deaf say this…not hearing.
May 16th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Ahhh…very interesting observation. It reminds me of the adage “When the mind expands, it perceives similarities; when the mind contracts, it perceives differences.” You have a beautiful mind, one that is open and expansive and can see the common bond in everything. It would be a beautiful world if all minds were so expansive.
May 16th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Wow, I like what Cuban said! “When the mind expands, it perceives similarities; when the mind contracts, it perceives differences.”
As for myself, I have never used the “world” when referring to the “Deaf world”. I only refer them as “Deaf Community” because to me, the word “community” makes me think of “relating to one another” as opposed to “my own space” (world). I always think of all of us – whites, blacks, hispanics, europians, asians, jewish, christians, deaf, hearing, etc. – are all sharing the same space: world. Deaf people just have one major thing in common and that is deafness.
Interesting observation, Geo!
May 16th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
i never have used the term ,,,deaf world,,,,i use deaf community because using that term as deaf world means every person that resides on earth is deaf,, glad you brought up this topic to share with many other deafies who still refer to use that term
May 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
I never thought of Deaf world.. to make looking bad seperate world from Hearing world.
Something that it made a sense to not seperate world from Deaf and Hearing to be connect in this planets.
It is almost exactly as Optimist’s comments is good example way to brought up about these issues. Thanks for share with us.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Interesting to see this topic…. I learned from my father and grandfather, they used the words on deaf world back to 1938. I just posted in Fookem and Bug Site early today…. here is the copy…
As I am deaf from birth is something that I learned from my dad, he often told me “Be proud of yourself, show the people who you are and do not allow them to push you down, if they do, they have no knowlege of beauty life in the deaf world”
To my eyes all my life I looked at deaf world is pretty much normal to me.
Just thought of this while ago… what about Blind World? I have not see this Blind World before…no hearing people have ask me this same question as you.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Geo you took my brain as i was going to discuss you about that word DEAF WORLD i guess we have ESP *eerie*
As one lady in town ask me the same question i said well if deaf world want to be one we wouldnt be on this planet wouldnt we ???? We would be on different planet like mars !!!! She said good point !!!!
I would never use the word WORLD as i know it is a planet.
I prefer to say COMMUNITY OR CULTURE OR SOCIETY. They are more professional words instead of WORLD.
To me i think the deaf use the word WORLD is to seperated culture from hearing but as you stated none of other culture use the word WORLD which is correct.
In my heart im always with hearing or deaf but dont use the word WORLD it makes everyone think wow deaf is not equalising with the rest of the culture.
Cheers
(_!_) <—- Trademark by moi :P
May 16th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I think it began for me when I was in the School for the Deaf here and classmates were talking “deaf world” and “hearing world” and even about graduation as “out in the world”; as in “Robert’s been out in the world for eight years now”.
Now that I have been a teacher and worker in the deaf community, it seems to be no longer used.
It’s interesting, though, as a culturalism. I asked my 20 year old son if he ever used the “deaf world” expression in the same school where I attended, and he said no. Perhaps it is an expression that disappeared with the changes in internet and telecommunications.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Geo,
You’ve bought up a very good point.
I agree with Alex’s quote since we want to be equal with hearing people.
I have no idea how “Deaf World” perceive in the first place.
I may venture my guess that the hearing people’s saying, “I’m in my own world.” Deaf people may take that saying the wrong way and assume they mean they are in “Hearing World.” I believe it’s wrong. That “I’m in my own world” quote really means in your own mind, you’re living outside of your world apart from others. In other word, that could also mean you don’t want to deal with your real life.
Actually, I didn’t think twice when I sometimes say “Deaf World” without realizing what it really means because I didn’t think I really understood that. Now you’ve explained more points on that issue which really hit on me. Obviously we don’t need to say or have our Deaf World since it is not necessary since we want to be created equal to hearing people. Yes, we want to live in harmony with other people of any gender, sex preference, religion, etc. But living in harmony may be a tad bit over the top nowdays, however that is everyone’s goal (including deaf, hearing, blind, etc.).
Thanks, Geo for bringing up very good and valid point.
Misha :D
May 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
SeekGeo, my good man, you portrayed that beautifully! I never understood why people were so quick to say hearing/deaf world. I’ve been deaf all my life and I never once acknowledged that deaf people are a “world” away from the hearing people. I’m farsighted and there isn’t a farsighted world nor a nearsighted world or an astigmatism world. We live in a place where it is diversified,
you have all sorts of people coming and going every single day from different cultures and ethnicities. They speak different languages, eat different foods and pass down different rituals to the young. People will travel to learn these cultures, to experience their rituals and to enrich themselves as a whole person. Most people do not separate their individual experiences or in our case our disability into two different worlds.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
By the way…
I forgot to mention something. Deaf people should use “Deaf Culture” instead of “Deaf World”. Since other people have the cultures to call such as “Black”, “Jewish”, “Hispanic”, “Italian”, so forth, you know what I mean. That should go well for everyone rather calling their own world.
Misha :D
May 16th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Thanks, everybody!
It’s strange to think how I grew up saying Deaf world but I never realized until I was asked by that person. I’m with Misha, we would say instead of “world”, we can say either culture or community.
Hey Cuban,
I like that, “When the mind expands, it perceives similarities; when the mind contracts, it perceives differences.” – very true!! Good one.
Hey Dianrez,
You are right in some areas where there is less saying of “Deaf world” but in other areas, it is more often to say it for some reason. Like when I lived in Portland, I haven’t seen “Deaf world” very often but then I moved to Seattle, it is said more often.
Strange, isn’t it? Or maybe depend on who you hang out with kind or crowd.. I don’t know?
-SG
May 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
As a hearing person, I have had questions such as that. You really put it into perspective. You are so good at discussing issues without attacking people’s ideas/beliefs.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
rats, misha took the words right out of my mouth.
“Since other people have the cultures to call such as “Black”, “Jewish”, “Hispanic”, “Italian”, so forth, you know what I mean. That should go well for everyone rather calling their own world.”
May 16th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Geo–
Good job on taking a stand and questioning what can be a controversial subject.
I agree with a lot of people on the world part. The beautiful thing about planet earth is the diversity that exists on it, race, disabilities, people, animals, why does the deaf feel they have to take away from it and create their own “planet” as your defintion defines it and create their own?
It is almost like the deaf people are god, trying to create a planet to exclude everyone else and only include deafies, which is not right, creates more diversity then neccesary and pushes everyone else who is not deaf away.
After all how do the deafies expect hearing people and anyone else to understand our culture and needs when we are at the same time pushing everyone out of this deaf “planet”?
Alex
May 16th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Yea, Geo very good issue to bring it up.
I have been think of that for a long time and why do we deaf people call two world different? Hearing or deaf..
we are in same ONE planet. There is no two different planets or world?
I tend to say deaf culture… not deaf world because we all live in ONE world.
Know some deaf people are very deaf in cultures/ASL that they learn from their deaf families and deaf schools where they grew up. They are very close knit with all deaf people around them but again when they graduate from deaf schools…deaf people will be out in the streets. They will be working with hearing people because hearing people has more population than deaf people.
In the past… we had many segregations with Black people,
Jew people, Chinese people, Hisspanic and nowdays a lot things have changed since then… we cannot say different world but it is just all kinds of cultures/ethnicities around the world.
Therefore, we should not use the term of DEAF WORLD… as we know we all deaf, HOH, deaf/blind… all kinds that we all live different cultures on ONE planet.
SB~~Suzy
May 16th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I had a good talk with my son who work at school for the deaf tonight. I asked him what did he think of deaf world and hearing world? He said that most students use the words on deaf culture rather than saying deaf world. My son said “Mom, we need to move on what is happening around the world on deaf culture from time to time.” It got me thinking about whole thing and am learning to accept their time.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Deaf World:
“Using hand-moving” (Sign) Language is spoken
*People listen with their eyes
*“Moving-face” (Facial Expressions) &
More Body Language
*Different foreign sign language like ASL, BSL, JSL, KSL,
MSL, and more.
*Depends on Sign Language interpreters
*Silence
*“Person can read/see like 50 to 100 ft or
more to person signs”
Hearing World:
“Using lip-moving” (Facial) language is spoken
* People listen with their ears
*Less moving-face (Facial Expressions) &
Less Body Language sometimes more???
*Different foreign spoken language like English,
Spanish, Dutch, China, Japanese, and more
*Depends on Foreign language interpreters
* Un-silence
* “Person cant hear from 50 to 100 ft or
more to person speak”
Deaf & Hearing Cultures, Values & Goals are biggest differences.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Mike,
FYI, there is no such thing as “hearing” culture.
French people have their own culture in France but they don’t call it French world.
-SG
May 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Hey there Geo! This is definitely an interesting topic! I don’t really use ‘DEAF WORLD’ myself but I can understand why it’s used often by deaf people. When we are immersed in our Deaf culture, we often feel like we are in our own world. For example, my friends and I often go out to eat in restaurants and go to bars, etc. and we never really notice what’s happening around us because we are totally in our own (Deaf) world, signing and having fun while hearing people stare at us. =P So, I think ‘DEAF WORLD’ is not meant as a planet of our own but meant to be used as how we feel-as if we are in our own world. Hearing people often used the term ‘IN HIS/HER OWN WORLD’ when someone is engrossed in something, be it a book, a movie, or even a person who is austistic. Therefore the phase is an idiom of sorts, not meant to be taken literally. Cheers! =D
May 16th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
SG, thank you for the big question. I have been stewing about this for a long time now.
Never separate. Just be together!!! We’re all humans. On this world! One world!
Well Deaf world is like the gay world. Intimate and everyone knows everyone. Everyone knows
everyone’s business!! Ha ha ha!!!
Ah, but the Deaf world has a truly nation-wide network. Even if you don’t know someone, you talk
to someone and they know someone that you kinda know and then then you know them and you know
their parents!!! Deaf world has “tentacles” cuz all Deafies know Deafies in many states or they know Deafies in other states who know Deafies, etc.! Ha! ;-)
When you meet a Deaf person and become their friend. They are friends forever!!! And that is so
unusual nowadays. The Deaf community knows how to be old school and treat people how we should be treated. A meeting of Deafies is like the old gatherings that people used to do in the ’60s. The old stereotype that a gathering of Deafies takes 2 hours to say goodbye is true! And that is a very good thing!!!
I’m always envious of the Deaf community because they always love everyone no matter who they are.
You will be a life-long friend. And Deafies are the most patient people in the world! And the best thing? They will take time to teach. As old as I am now, I love a great teacher who will teach me so many things.
I’m so lucky to have been surrounded by Deafies and teach me ASL. I want to learn so much more!!!
May 16th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
I got stuck over here…
http://www.captions.com/
May 16th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Food for thought…
Perhaps the saying ‘Deaf World’ first started back in the early 1900’s because the deaf people at the time felt oppressed by the rest of the world so they felt it was time to take the reins into their own hands. That meant separating themselves from others for the time being. (Think Nazi Germany era, our rights here in the USA, not being able to sign in the classroom, etc)
In the past decade, there hasn’t been much happening to make the deaf feel distant from the hearing so perhaps that’s why more people are inclined to use the term ‘culture, community,’ or ’society’ over ‘world.’
May 16th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
You brought up a very good dicussion and such a nice perspective you shared as well. I never bothered about it until you discovered it. Thanks, Geo ;)
May 17th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Interesting subject to bring up “Deaf World”. I’m guilty of using that words. I think due to our definition of “deaf world” means different from the book. Just like there is a deaf word like Pah! You won’t see it in the dictionary. But in the deaf community means FINALLY!! or Success!! When we use that word Deaf World it means deaf culture/community.. Yes, it won’t say in the dictionary book.. But in the deaf community it is a unspoken understanding what other person saying when we say “Deaf World”.. We don’t mean anything bad way about us being separate from the hearing community. In our “Deaf World” we do have hearing people who is fluent in signing or fluent ASL in our deaf culture. We still involve them in our “world”.. It doesn’t mean about being equal or whatever.. It is the way of life meaning our world of living in our mind how we want to live. “Our world”
It has been a while since I use that words “deaf world”. I don’t see it as in a bad way. It is our term of meaning is different from the dictionary.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:25 am
Geo,
I watched this last night and have “slept on” my comment. I am like Abbie, I don’t see a hearing/deaf world. Maybe it is because I surround myself with My community, my world. I tune out the ones who don’t accept myself as deaf or my family as a biracial, jewish, christian family. You really create your own world.
Now back on topic, I wonder why there has to be two separate cultures/worlds. Why do the so called leaders of the Deaf World believe that all deaf people must live by one way of life. Where is this separatation taught? Where are these behaviors taught? In order for these beliefs and behaviors to change, you have to find the cause. History shows that in order for others to change, you have to first show that accepting change is not scary. The biggest step is the first, thank you for taking that step.
valerie
May 17th, 2008 at 5:01 am
[...] albums. The songs are just as good as “Red Right Hand,” “Tupelo,” “The Merc (0 clicks) Are we in a Deaf or Hearing World?For YouTubers: Click here Summary: Regarding why there are two dif… Sing out, sister: tunes you have to belt“Sing, sing a song / sing out loud, sing out [...]
May 17th, 2008 at 5:01 am
[...] albums. The songs are just as good as “Red Right Hand,” “Tupelo,” “The Merc (0 clicks) Are we in a Deaf or Hearing World?For YouTubers: Click here Summary: Regarding why there are two dif… Sing out, sister: tunes you have to belt“Sing, sing a song / sing out loud, sing out [...]
May 17th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Hi there – I agree about the basic logic behind the word “DEAF-WORLD,” that it might sound as if Deaf people were separating themselves from the hearing populace. Yet, in other way, I disagree that it is about being negative towards hearing people and making everything exclusive. In French, there is an expression “le monde francophone” (the French-speaking world), which includes people who speak French in certain areas on this planet. Maybe using the word Deaf with World doesn’t exactly respresent our community correctly today, but rather, use the word “the ASL world.” If you go back to the dictionary, and look at one of the entries:
7. a particular class of people, with common interests, aims, etc.: the fashionable world.
A common interest could be ASL, and that could just about include everyone; Deaf, deaf, hard-of-hearing and hearing people who share the interest for ASL.
Nowadays, I don’t see many say Deaf World, but a lot of people do say “the deaf experience.” We all have one, and that is what connects us on a common ground, sharing our experiences together. We can share our deaf experience with hearing people who are willing to learn about it. There are the “Black experience” as well.
Good post! You gave us something to think about!
May 17th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Seek GEO!
Excellent article!
Your expansive and open mind make ye ..
SEXY SEEK GEO!
HaHa!
Great vlog!
:o)
Paotie
May 17th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Hi..
Good question I never thought of it.. Thank you for bringing up… take care
karla64
May 17th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Excellent vlog… I wondered that to myself, wondering if we were that jealous and exclusive. Pretty narcissistic of us, huh? ;o)
We need to tone down our grandeur thoughts, say communities instead of worlds.
May 17th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Just got out of my matress world.
Very good and clear presentation of this vlog.
Of course I see “deaf world” pretty often but never thought of exactly what it should mean….probably many of us didn’t mean it that way but still I know there are certain deaf groups that rejects variety of deaf people….so how can this still be WORLD?
I grew up in both mainstreamed schools and deaf school, so I’ve always been with variety of deaf people (and hearings) and never want to chose only one side or “world”. I think I’ve said “Deaf World” few times too, I guess it’s because I see others use it. I gotta stop that.
Good job.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Another common use of the word – “Third World”, and someone who “lives in his on world” – living apart, separated. A person who “lives in his own world” is disconnected from those around.
I have often heard of deaf persons feeling disconnect from families, or mainstream schoolmate, but then feeling the acceptance of a deaf group, and feeling like they are crossing between two worlds.
I think it just describes a separation, that may have been more noticable a generation or more past.
Just my uninformed thoughts from over here in the “hearing world” :)
Side note: Keith Wann – Worlds collide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjGEA8L1ovw
May 17th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Hello Geo!
good question I never thought of that. maybe Deaf people felt that hearing people reject Deaf people that created that Deaf community created their own “world”?? maybe Iam wrong. I know that hearing and Deaf never able to stay in their world. that probably why Deaf world became Deaf defination of their own “world”. I just share my opinion that is possiblies but who know what is right defination??
May 17th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
There is a very old saying “We are worlds apart” I am thinking perhaps that saying may have something to do with the term. I have always watched as the hearing people in our world tend to retract from any deaf individual that uses sign to communicate. It almost seems that they are afraid to even try to communicate with the deaf. I also think this is why the deaf have a hard time finding a right employment. If you watch a say a mexican looking confused in a public place there is always someone that will come up and try to assist him. BUT watch a deaf man/woman signing in ca confused state and not many will jump on to give the same assistance. That makes me believe the “DEAF WORLD” came from a hearing person that actually believed that the deaf are from a different world. How sad is that?
May 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
i always grew up thinking deaf world just meant ur with a group of deaf people and hearing world meant ur with group of hearing people. i never thought of it as anything else. but i agree we should all accept eachother for who we are no matter what. we should not reject someone from deaf community just cuz they are not “deaf enough”. we should accept anyone and learn from eachother…
May 17th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
To “A Person from Deaf World”,
Your comment is deleted because it is not acceptable due to attacking one or more. These type of bitter people like you feel the need to attack others won’t do any good.
I’d suggest for you to study the meaning of opinions, feelings, facts, etc before you come in here to start attacking as like you think you are so smart even though you are not.
By the way, you answered your own question regarding American Culture.. because I never heard of “American World.”
-SG
May 17th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Hey everyone,
Thanks for many interesting thoughts and discussions regarding “deaf world”, it seems that it can mean for many things but of course like many of you stated that we all have our own cultures and communities living in this planet.
I received some emails or chatted with some people via IMs or VPs, they stated they have noticed most younger people use “culture” or “community” more compare to older ones in general that says “world” just like some of you said.
-SG
May 17th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
To “A Person From Deaf World”,
Ok, you are making no sense because you said you would only discuss with other people because it is pointless to continue this. I find it funny because you came in here first to attack and now you act as like there is no room to discuss?
Think twice, if you have something to disagree or share your concerns, opinions then be grow up and discuss. That’s the way for us all to learn from each other despite of our difference point of view, opinions, etc.
You attacked first so there is NO way to discuss anything further with you. Just like if a child screams at mother, there is no way a mother would listen to begin with.
You said American Culture came into 80’s — exactly! I don’t see why not we say Deaf culture since there is no such thing as American World so why Deaf world?
By the way, your comments will NOT be allowed on here until you show your maturity to discuss your point of view with us.
-SG
May 17th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Geo,
I find this very interesting topic!!
Iam deaf but when you give this speech about two world…
We ought think.. Take “world” out of our vocabulary?
Agree??
Thanks DCO
May 17th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Hey deafnet,
I couldn’t say to remove it off the vocabulary cuz it’s part of history.
-SG
May 18th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Hey Fairlady,
After reading your comment, I understand your point of view so I am wondering because you said in our “Deaf World”, we do have hearing people who is fluent in signing or fluent ASL.
My question is what about hearing people that don’t know ASL or having difficult to become fluent in ASL for instance hearing friends of ours, hearing kids of Deaf parent(s), etc? So, in that case.. they are not welcomed? That’s the thing I’m confused because I’m not fluent in spanish but I’m welcomed in Spanish culture since I have spanish friends and I always find it interesting to learn their culture, food, etc.
Same with Asia culture where I have to take my shoes off at my friend’s before entering her home and eat on floor for dinner but I would never be fluent in their language.
Hope that makes sense? :-)
-SG
May 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
In “MY Deaf World” they are all welcome to come into regardless if they are fluent in signing or not.. I don’t discriminated against them cuz I use to be like them before learning ASL at the age of 15.. In order for them to understand, they need to come into “deaf world” to live and understand the term “deaf world” meaning. It is quite often I’m living in their world. For them to understand what I meant is for them to come into my world of “Deaf World” Why I feel more at home with my deaf culture and whatnot. I don’t become picky but I don’t force them or anything. I welcome them all to come in.
It is still one earth/planet/world. We are force to live together. We either chose to live in peace or war. Take your pick. I pick peace as it is much easier to live in that way.
My definition of deaf world = deaf community/culture. No discrimination on my part. I can’t speak for others but only for me.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Hi Fairlady!
Fair enough, in your own term of “deaf world” means pretty much the same as culture/community so which is why I’m asking what’s wrong with saying culture/community instead of world because not everyone outside of our culture/community would understand the whole meaning of this “deaf world.”
We couldn’t want to give them the wrong impression of saying we are in our own and you are over there in hearing world unless like you stated if we’d explain to every person every time.
Just like every other group saying culture/community which attracts other people to be more interested to learn about their culture and/or community.
When I say “deaf world”, a hearing person or even a deaf person that doesn’t know the meaning of it would feel like they are not part unless I say deaf culture/community, they’d be like.. wow.. you have your own culture? Please tell me more about it, I’m very excited to learn!
Just my two cents.
Interesting discussion, though!
-SG
May 18th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Nope. There is nothing wrong with saying that either. I think when I use the words “deaf world”, I often use it with my own peers who are in it. When I speak to outsiders or people that are not aware of the “deaf world”. I would use the word culture/community. We just need to be aware of it when we use that words “deaf world” with whom.. As others may or may not understand that. We would have to go into mile long discussion about it. LOL
Good discussion tho, GEO!! :)
May 18th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Excellent vlog, Geo…and an excellent point.
I confess, I have been guilty of using the term “Deaf World” in the past – but I think I do intend it to mean more like culture or community or the like.
On the other hand, Bill brings up a good point – “world” can also refer to that unique environment of our own making, in which we can sometimes feel separated from others.
I like to see it as this – we are all part of this big World known as planet Earth, but within that world, we carve out our own unique little “subworlds”… which we may or may not share with others.
Good discussion, and good food for thought!
May 18th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I have used the terminology of “Deaf World” before but only to served as a distinction to define how each group perceives things and functions in a different way. I think it is more inclined to be used as an analogy rather than served it as a statement. Since you brought it up, it does makes me think that analogy could potentially be misconstrued as a divisive statement. So, thanks for bringing it to my consciousness!!
May 18th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Fairlady brought up an interesting point when she said she doesn’t discriminate against people in “her deaf world”.
So the next point to bring up. Is it really stretching it by saying true ASL, deaf people who have the claim of having a deaf world, are they effectively discrminating against hearing people and even other “deaf” people like me who are not true ASL users, etc etc? By not letting us into this “deaf world”…
Is it really double standard to protest against discrimination against deaf people in the “deaf world” but they are just fine “discriminating” against people who are not “true deaf” people?
Just another thought to bring up maybe.
Alex
May 18th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Geo, you shared your thoughts about the usage of ‘World’ which is intriguing and at the same time, silly thing to worry about! It is all about the semantics!
First and foremost of all, Earth, the world or Gaea, literally and figuratively, owned us. We do not own the physical planet, it owns us. Yes, the world is composed with the majority of hearing people but it is not their world nor ours.
I want to echo what Meggy said — she got it right. The reason why the ‘Deaf World’ was created in the MINDS of Deaf people was to RESPOND in dealing with the oppressions of these hearing people. Get this? We *never* rejected them. They *rejected* us in the first place. We created our sense of belonging i.e. deaf schools, deaf organizations, deaf friends, deaf clubs, deaf workplaces … and viewed it as ‘Deaf World’ in a literal sense. Nothing to be taken seriously, really.
Deaf families? Please *stop* pointing at Deaf families for perpetuating the sense of ‘Deaf World’ — I was raised in a long line of Deaf families and none of us said, “That is Deaf World!” — I learned it at deaf school from deaf children of HEARING parents who DETECTED the differences between two worlds.
I’m sick of people assuming and defaming Deaf families in many ways. Geo, I was bit offended when you chose us as responsible for that term.
Jews? Israel.
African-Americans? Urban ghetto/housing projects — ask them where they considered their world — they will say these places!
Blind? Please. Listen carefully — Blind does not need its world because they hear languages — English or whatever ultimately brought them in the mainstreaming with the hearing people a notch ahead of Deaf people. So you cannot compare Blind with Deaf people — it is like comparing apples with oranges!
Must we merge two worlds? No, not at all. In fact, you can have 2, 3 or 4 worlds and all you need is to build the bridges to each other and appreciate their differences.
Remember, we did NOT reject them. They did first. They drove us away and by driving us away, we created our customs, rules, language and culture.
Really, the whole thing about ‘world’ is … silly, literally.
R-
May 18th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Ridor,
FYI: What is silly to one might be imperative to another. Lets take closed captiong for example, hearing people don’t need it. They think it is a silly little feature but for the deaf/hard of hearing it is imperative that we have that feature.
I feel that the world, realistically, does not own the human race. It is because of the human race that we can recognize there is a world out there. We have none other then ourselves to thank for this realization.
You feel that the reason for the phrase “deaf world” is brought on by oppression from being rejected from hearing people. This is a plausible theory. However, we have an awful lot of people with a hearing loss with a stereotype that deaf people reject ANYTHING that upsets their language. Just like you assumed all African Americans lived in the ghetto or Jews will chose Israel as their home, it is a stereotype. What about the deafblind? Is that still apples and oranges to you? Yet another stereotype. I doubt it was Geo’s intention to maliciously place the blame on the Deaf, he just inquisitively asked that people exploring the origin of when Deaf/Hearing world started. It is open to many theories. So you don’t have to get your boxers in a bunch over it :)
There is an awful lot of rejection flying around but I clearly see it is on both sides. The hearing people reject the Deaf concept that there is nothing to fix. The late deafened individuals have a problem with that because they feel it is something to fix and they want it fixed. The deaf people reject the idea of being fixed because it is a threat to their culture. I know there is a lot more to it but that is the gist. I just portrayed three different groups that are affected by hearing loss and we all have the same problem communicating and NONE of us are seeing eye to eye. Each group is rejecting the others point of views based on the cultural differences. It would be nice if there were a common ground because there would be so much more accomplished in the way of full access to communication.
In retrospect, I don’t see how you are offended because it isn’t personal, after all it is just a silly question from a deaf man’s experience.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Ridor,
Ok.. hearing rejected us a deaf people, why can’t we deafies be the better person/group STEP UP, be mature and open our arms for them into our community/culture.
There are a lot of things we would want to appreciate even if it is not perfect which we have captions, pagers to communicate, we have many things that we need in our lives which is far better than 50 years ago and oh hell, even better than most countries out there. So what we can do is to welcome everyone into our community/culture to learn about us more and our needs, the more they learn the better it will be for us.
Where did I defame deaf families? I did not appreciate of being accused because I am deaf myself and when I said in the video, clearly, “I guess” that it means everything is deaf which is “deaf world” such as deaf school, deaf friends, deaf families, etc when I was asked off guard.
FYI – nobody owns anybody.
-SG
May 18th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Abbie: You said, I feel that the world, realistically, does not own the human race. It is because of the human race that we can recognize there is a world out there.
Where did we sprang from? Adam & Eve? Please. If not for this world, we would not evolve to what we have, do and will! And when we perish (and yes, the human race WILL perish.), the world will still be there. Realistically, the concept is odd but the truth is that it owns us — we will die and bury in it.
About not all Jews live in Israel. I never implied that ALL jews lives in Israel. But they do HAVE a home of THEIR own and that is Israel. ALL Jews will say that they were taught to view Jerusalem/Israel as their own in a relationship with G-d. They have their own language, customs, religion … blah blah blah. But they do not have to LIVE in Israel but they KNEW they had a home of their OWN. In fact, New York City has the world’s largest jewish population, I believe, but they still regard Jerusalem as their home!
Long time ago in the past, African Americans were taken out of Africa to enslave in many countries and when they were freed, they were discriminated, shunned et al — they gather with each other and develop their own communities all over the place — most notably ghettos/housing projects — again, NOT ALL AFRICAN AMERICANS CAME FROM THERE but they knew that that place is the source of their world away from the population! Even believe it or not, the modern Africans do not regard African Americans as their own people — they sometimes made fun of African Americans, I know because several friends of mine who are African Americans went to Africa and told me about it!
And if you want to shove and twist the words of mine in my face, fine with me. I think people out there knew what I meant about Jews and African-Americans!
You claimed that I feel that the reason we coined “Deaf World” is brought on by oppression? Check ‘Deaf Heritage’ and many deaf-related history. You will see that the Deaf Community has evolved and made their own community because they were rejected by hearing people. If you disagree, PROVE IT!
You said that today, we have awful lot of deaf poeple that reject anything that upsets their language. That is not true. That is YOUR plausible theory, that’s for sure. Many wanted ASL on the SAME level with English. English = written, ASL = signs. Many modes of communication … are not languages, they are just modes of communication.
For years, many hearing people attempted to mix the modes of communication into ASL and it really messed Deaf people’s ability to understand English better. Today, many Deaf people pushed the modes of communication aside and make sure that ASL is respected as English do. None of us reject anything that upsets our language as you claimed us to do so!
About you saying things regarding the different journeys of Deaf individuals (FYI, I regard latened deaf, deaf/Deaf, deafblind, hard of hearing, hearing impaired, hearing loss et al as Deaf, period.), that is WHAT Paddy Ladd talked about Deafhood — they crafted their own experiences of what it means to be Deaf person by encountering many things that not hearing people do. That is Deafhood.
Cheers,
R-
May 19th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Geo:
Name ONE Deaf organization that rejected hearing people. Please. Name ONE! Just. Name. One. I dare you. Because there is none.
Yes, the ATTITUDE is there. It is matter of convenience and comfort, really. They just wanted to chat freely without any kind of limitations — hearing limit-signers and non-signers do not apply. It does NOT mean that we reject them.
In the past, Deaf people tried to join the Kiwanis club, Lions Club, Daughter of American Revolution … and they were routinely denied. What to do next? They formed their own organizations. Today, none of these organizations reject hearing people! In fact, Richmond Club of the Deaf, Inc. has hearing members!! What is your POINT in urging us to step up and be a better person than them? We are ALREADY better than them, that is for sure!
I think you’re talking about the fact that Deaf people PREFERRED to socialize with their own than to deal with ‘hearing people’. Well, if I was to choose a deaf or hearing friends to go out at different locations, it is normal for me to choose Deaf friend. Why? Convenience. That’s all it is. But to say that some of us reject them is bull.
You did mention “Deaf families” in the vlog!!
As for “nobody owns anybody”, yeah, right. Gaea owns you.
R-
May 19th, 2008 at 7:29 am
I think that deafutahhiker made a good point about “le monde francophone” (the French-speaking world). In truth, there are many such worlds based on language and/or other cultural bonds. The “Anglophone world” refers to English-speaking countries and peoples. Terms that I come across a lot, namely “the Hispanic world” or “el mundo hispano”, often encompass Spanish-speaking peoples but also English-speaking Latinos in the United States. So some of these terms are flexible and lack rigidly defined borders.
In fact, there are a lot of different worlds out there.
I don’t see “hearing world” and “Deaf world” as being exceptional or old-fashioned terms, nor do they necessarily imply strict borders. It would be possible for people to function in both the Deaf and hearing worlds.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Hey deafutahhiker & JS,
That’s for sure it is a good example but close… actually, I looked up what “le monde francophone” means which is “french-speaking world” like Canada and France but it does not mean France world, it is just talking about the language, it is possible how their meaning is different than us.
There are like french speaking countries, spanish speaking countries, etc but I never heard of spanish refer to as the hispanic world.
Just like we can say ASL world, English-speaking world, etc.. you can find this ““le monde francophone” more information: Click here
-SG
May 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Ridor,
You brought up one of my favorite topics, theories of evolution! Which came first, the chicken or the egg? :) I don’t believe Adam and Eve story because the very notion that a woman was formed from a man’s rib is preposterous. The chemical composition that makes humans – human could have arrived from space or the earth was sprinkled with aliens that have evolved. We could visit the Darwin’s with his Theory of Evolution or the Big Bang Theory if you want to go in-depth. However, I do not see how we sprang from earth, the human race does not look like we were uprooted from the ground nor did we evolve from mermaids. I prefer to look at the all the creatures as habitants of earth and not something that is owned. I do not see how ownership was transferred from the womb to the world. *shrug* That is my opinion and you have yours.
I surely don’t recall shoving or twisting your words in your face. We are just having a nice little discussion about why people say hearing or deaf world. Nothing more and nothing less. I know what you meant about the Jews/African American examples but I was just pointing out the usage of stereotypes which can lead to drawing the wrong conclusions.
The reason why I feel that you felt that the “deaf world” was coined by oppression was by your statement in your first comment:
The reason why the ‘Deaf World’ was created in the MINDS of Deaf people was to RESPOND in dealing with the oppressions of these hearing people.
That is where the idea was planted! If I misconstrued this, please feel free to clarify. I am well aware of how the Deaf came together as a community because hearing people felt that they were a lost cause and suggest shipping them off to an institution so they don’t have to deal with them! Hearing people didn’t know enough about deaf people to realize that was the only thing wrong with us. If they couldn’t understand that, how could they have known what the right way was to ensure total communication access? Times have changed since then. There are more options. Deaf people have made incredible strides to ensure the future will be easier for the next deaf generation. No disagreement here.
My plausible theory that Deaf people do reject alternative ways of communication is in fact substantiated by facts and my own personal experiences. As long as the introduction of ASL and written English is the primary mode of communication when it is not, that is when I see uproars over alternate communication tools such as cue speech, SEE or a dare I say, a cochlear implant coupled with AVT. It is true and it is real but does not represent the majority but it does represent some. I can vouch that this happens because I have been on the receiving end of numerous insults just because I have a cochlear implant. Alas, I do not take this personally and allow it to cloud my opinion.
I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I read the Paddy Ladd book on Deafhood but from what I hear it is an incredibly dry read. I would like to see a consortium amongst the deaf because there is so many aspects that if we could band together, we can ensure equality.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I’ll admit that I read some comments. When it gets out of hand, I had to jump to write the comments. Don’t get me wrong… I am not out to get you or someone else that s Pro deaf world.
I agree that “world” is old saying, however those people who said deaf world…. I believe that they didn’t mean it in a hatred point of view. World is just a word.. just a slang… I am bit surprised that there is controversy out of this meaningless word (or slang).
When you mentioned that Black doesn’t say black world, etc. I find that odd. So I googled it up. Here they are….
There are many issues that affect the black world, such as the dearth of African-Americans in higher education and problems of poverty and justice, and there are few in the islands whom I can engage with about them,” said Takara, who is black.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jji3d_uDdoZW9iV-o05cxxYDerewD90OJF4G0
The Jerusalem Post website has the section called Jewish World.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/Page/IndexParMult&cid=1124114124309
That should back up my comment. It is just a slang. I know for fact, one of many people don’t look at the worlds as a meaning. If you are asking me if I am using ‘world’. No, I don’t. I usually say “Deaf community” IMO, community is more powerful than world. That’s other story hmmm!
May 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Hey Bobby,
Thanks for pointing this out.. it does make a lot of senses which that helps. Thanks for sharing that with us! :-)
-SG
May 19th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Hearing and Deaf world are truly seperated because of communication barrier. Some willing to try to communicated, some do not. If ASL are the solution to communication between hearing and deaf then why can’t we? Take ASL program in Elementary, Middle and High School? But no no no! Why, because there are not enough Deaf people in the world. So that makes the Hearing world takes over. You all hearing people take over the America, as the Indians once own it. So it makes no different. If there are deaf people going over 3/4 population than hearing in American, will there be a civil war. :) It is just a communication barrier period. Look at Olsen Brothers and other Codas are involved with deaf communities. We love them but hearing who know nothing about ASL don’t give a damn! Remember a easy solution to fit the hearing and deaf world together is the power of ASL. Oh, gonna go turn over my T-bone steak!
May 19th, 2008 at 11:30 am
For me, I like saying culture or community but “world”, nah.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Interesting thoughts, very good thinking. Personally, I use the label “deaf community.” I can’t remember ever saying “deaf world.”
Indeed, saying “deaf world” and “hearing world” implies a separation, rather than an unity.
May 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Hey The One and Only Ridor & SeekGeo
R- wrote this:
In the past, Deaf people tried to join the Kiwanis club, Lions Club, Daughter of American Revolution … and they were routinely denied. What to do next? (Mike wrote: TRY?? NationalGRANGE.org) They formed their own organizations. Today, none of these organizations reject hearing people! In fact, Richmond Club of the Deaf, Inc. has hearing members!! What is your POINT in urging us to step up and be a better person than them? We are ALREADY better than them, that is for sure!
R-
Mike wrote this:
I was impressed that small town called Woodland,WA where I live.. Woodland Grange Hall put information about deaf like college, people, cultures, community on bulletin board
Hey SeekGeo When You drive to Woodland,Wa You can stop at Woodland Grange Hall to take picture on their Bulletin Board :-)
I am thinking to join this organization
You Try to join this organization because they will give you discount member benefits: Hearing Aids, Car Rental, Hotel, and more.
The National Grange is an organization with special interests in agriculture, community service, legislative affairs, women, deaf and hard of hearing …
http://www.nationalgrange.org/
copy/paste from google search engine
Good Luck,
Mike
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I noticed something — SG censored the last comment that I wrote and I emailed him to ask him why … no response. I wonder why.
R-
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Ridor, I did reply so I replied.. again. I said there is no comment anywhere that I see of so you’d have to comment again.
-SG
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Why do we saying “small world”, “out of the world”, and etc. It is the same thing with deaf world. When we saying that, we didnt mean the “Planet” but it is how we saying it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Iowa Deaf,
Seriously.. you really think there is only ONE definition of “world”? Think again before you say it outloud.
I wonder if you really think “saw” means one thing? Hmm…
-SG